See It My Way

Friday, March 28, 2008

Transcript

The story of China and Tibet is muddied by propaganda from both sides. Everyone sees it their own way, including the West.

Comments [9]

Jim

If you compare with how Dalai Lama was treated by China and how American Indians was treated by US, Dalai Lama has been much better treated than the American Indians.

Dalai was treated with

- a time to sign a reunification pact without any guns near him

- one of the highest government office post in China

- freedom to leave China, which he used to set up an opposing "government-in-exile" in return

- even today, a chance for welcome-back-to-China if he abandons his Tibet independence activities and recognizes Tibet is integral part of China again

In comparison, none of these were given to any American Indians.

Mar. 31 2008 08:19 PM
Jim

Appointment of Lama's in China

Ro, since historically Chinese emperors had the final appointment power of any lamas in Tibet, it is not surprising that Chinese government excercised this power in appointing who to be the current Panchen Lama. Dalai Lama theortically does not have the final power to appoint who to be Panchen Lama, although by tradition, Chinese government (similar to previous Chinese emperors) perhaps should have listened and "respected" Dalai's recommendations under good relations.

Since Dalai Lama's organization (despite denial by Dalai himself) is promoting propaganda of Tibet "independence" with distorted history facts everywhere in the world, the Chinese today obviously were not in sufficiently good relation with Dalai to accept Dalai's recommendations, and appointed different person to be today's Panchen Lama.

By historical tradition, though, China's appoint should final. Dalai's appointee should be invalid.

Mar. 30 2008 07:08 PM
Ro

Panchen Lama is as we speak, under imprisonment in China. Expatriot Tibettans plead for his release.

Yes certainly my words reflect my disdain and disgust for China's warring against the peaceable and heretofore, until 1949, peaceful land of Tibet. That was my intellectual intent. I have not been aware of, nor the subject of any propoganda on the Dalai Lama's part.

Mar. 30 2008 05:41 PM
Jim

Ro, some other different views, as far as I heard -

Tibet has been semi-formal part of China since Mongolian time (around yr 1300 AD). Since that time, Chinese emperors always had the final power to appoint the post of Dalai Lama, even though Chinese emperors typically respected Tibetan tradition of incarcination of Dalai Lama in selecting who to be appointed. Tibet's relative autonomy (Dalai calls "independence") occurred during only the short period around 1911-1950 (I did not check the exact dates).

Secondly, both Dalai Lama and Panchen Lama together signed the reunification pact with China in 1950 without any Chinese troops physically in Lhasa.

Third, Dalai Lama was a senior official of Chinese government during 1950-1959. He had many meetings with Mao, and I do not believe such meetings were under gun either. So was Panchen Lama. The difference is, Panchen Lama loved China all his life and stayed with his promises, but Dalai seemed to have changed his mind later in life.

Mar. 30 2008 05:37 PM
Jim

Ro, I can see your hatred in your words. I guess His Holyness' propaganda works well, both in Tibet and around the world.

As far as I heard, Mao explicitly instructed China border guards to let Dalai Lama leave Tibet freely in 1959 without any interference. I let readers here to interpret this fact. At the same time, Panchen Lama sided with Chinese government and stayed.

Mar. 30 2008 04:38 PM
Ro

Forgive me 'Jim', but having observed your poor written English, I must conclude that English is not your first language, spoken or written. (Chinese perhaps?)

Based on your three different posts to 'On The Media' at less than one minute intervals this afternoon I must conclude that they were carefully prepared ahead of time and then posted to look sequential.

Regarding the Dalai Lama's 'membership' of the Chinese Government in the 1950 - 1959, please remember that the Chinese INVADED the sovereign country of Tibet and in order to stamp it as legitimate, FORCED the Dalai Lama under threat of death to himself and torture and extermination of his people, to accept this abhorent abasement of his stature in Tibettan religious and cultural society.

Another small reminder: the Dalai Lama did not 'leave' China in 1959. He fled iand escaped into exile to India under threat of death.

It has been established that the recent burning of Han Chinese stores in Llasa last week were perpetrated by people dressed as monks.

Putting it politely, I believe you to be totally ingenuous and a scoundrel of the most despicable kind.

One day when you are very old and are regretting having sold your soul to the devil, you will remember the calumny you have done to the honorable, peace-loving and peace-living people of Tibet.

May whichever God you believe in forgive you your satanic evil.

Mar. 30 2008 03:55 PM
Jim

I heard that Tibet before 1950 was a feudal slavery society as well; poor people there (of course not the elite monks like Dalai Lama) were said to be amputated, arms and legs could be cut for even minor crimes. I did not live during that time to witness these, but many films, photos, and museum seems to support this claim.
During my visit to Tibet, I was free to talk about any subject with Tibetan Lamas (elite monks) there, as well as common (poor) Tibetan people. Although I do see that some elite monks may support Dalai Lama, the average Tibetans (descendents of previous slaves) do not seem to agree with Dalai at all. Most Tibetans I talked to in Tibet seem to indicate that lives Tibet are much better now than Dalai's time.
I really wished to have some faith in Dalai Lama's propaganda, but it is simply inconsistent with what I saw during my trip to Tibet and China, even recently.

Mar. 30 2008 01:14 PM
Jim

Dalai Lama proposed ethnic cleansing in 1987

Recently, Dalai Lama personally accuses Chinese "cultural genocide", because some Han Chinese went to Tibet to help building new Tibet infrastructure, and perhaps established some modern schools that may might compete with Dalai's monasteries for minds of youngsters. Dalai Lama could be afraid that young Tibetans, if educated in modern schools, may be less likely to be loyal to His Holyness Dalai Lama's organization; therefore Dalai Lama sees that not only the modern schools, but also the any presence of Chinese in Tibet at all, is a threat to his semi-political and semi-religious dynasty. The last thing His Holyness Dalai would want to hear is probably separation of church and state.

No wonder back on Sep 21, 1987, Dalai declared that all Han Chinese (even if they have permanently settled in Tibet for long time) must leave (or even be expelled from) Tibet. Not sure if one can consider Dalai Lama, by expelling all settled Han Chinese, is trying to promote ethnic cleansing himself, even though Dalai Lama strongly accuses others of "cultural genocide".

Mar. 30 2008 01:14 PM
Jim

Media coverage distortion by most Western media

I have been in Tibet and China, as well as many parts of the world. I have talked extensively to both Tibetans and Chinese over the years. I believe that most Western media are being too biased in favor of Dalai Lama in general.

– Most Western media tends to report frequently false or extremely biased information from Dalai Lama's groups, as if such false or biased information are the only truth. For example, most Western media do not show the pain and suffering of the Chinese victims and victim's families resulted from Dalai Lama group's violence.

– most Western media ignores the fact that Dalai Lama (together with Panchen Lama) both agreed to reunify with China round the time of 1950 and Dalai Lama himself was member of the Chinese government at the top level between 1950-1959 before he left China in 1959

– Consider if similar situation is happening in New York - i.e. if a violent "protester" burn our stores in Manhattan (similar to the way Dalai Lama's people burn Chinese stores and kill Chinese people in Tibet), our NYPD police probably would arrest such violent "protestors" in similar way as Chinese police enforced law and order during the recent riots in Tibet. Morally, Dalai Lama should compensate all the victim's families since his organization used false propaganda to promote inter-racial hatred in Tibet and around the world.

Mar. 30 2008 01:13 PM

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